Everybody said turbos were expensive, inefficient,maintenance-intensive, and problem-prone; it shortens TBO and increases operating costdrastically, and makes no sense unless you live in the mountains. For instance, by climbing from 6,000′ to 12,000′ and throttling back from 75% to 65%power, my Turbo 310 can fly 5 knots faster than a normally-aspirated 310, and do it atlower fuel flow. But while certain specific TCM and Lycoming models are problem-prone, it is simplywrong to make a general assertion that engines of either manufacturer are more reliablethan those of the other. rev 2020.12.18.38240, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Aviation Stack Exchange works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us, To put a bit of a finer point on it (and give a freebie answer element), I'm looking for things like. What is the difference between an engine “shut down”, “cut-off” and “cut down”? I’ve noticed from purely casual observation that Lycoming piston engines tend to have a 2,000 hour TBO, while Continentals have a TBO of around 1,500 hours. Continentals, at least the smaller ones, have the right mag firing at the top plugs and the left firing the bottom. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. If your airplane is used for training or rental use and flown by lots of pilots,you probably don’t want a turbo. And that will start eating awayat the innards of our engine. Air Power Inc Selling the Best for Less, and Making Friends Worldwide! The result is usuallytrouble: fouled spark plugs, accelerated exhaust valve guide wear, and stuck exhaustvalves. When I learned to fly on the East Coast thirty-something yearsago, turbocharging was a dirty word. Experience seems to indicate that oil consumption lower than about a quart in 20 hoursmay not bode well for long cylinder life. Lycoming vs Continental for reliability & maintenance The more A&P's I talk to, the general consensus is that one of these is a more reliable engine with less maintenance. While the poor reliability of Jabiru engines jumps out (with over 40% of the engine failures), the study still found 86 failures of Lycoming and Continental engines. Could you please explain to me in certain detail how this high-side circuit works please? What is the relationship between fuel mixture and RPM in a reciprocating engine? If you ask why, they’ll tell you a series of anecdotal episodes about howtheir Lycoming-powered Turbo Saratoga made it to 1,000 hours past TBO, while their bestfriend wound up having to tear down the TCM factory reman in his Mooney 231 or Beech B36TCafter just 475 hours. That means picking an airplane with an engine that either Lycoming or Continental got right from the beginning or fixed as the model matured. Lycoming has long authorized leaning to peak EGT at any cruisesetting up to 75% power. For commercial operators under Part 135, TBO is theoretically "compulsory"because TCM and Lycoming publish their TBO figures in the form of a service bulletin, andPart 135 operators are required to comply with service bulletins. Smith, Victor, orwhomever, that engine retains most of its original parts, as well as its serial number,data plate, and engine logbook or other maintenance records. Aviation Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for aircraft pilots, mechanics, and enthusiasts. Now, 240F isway hotter than we’d like to see. Operating at minimum RPM and maximum MP (within the allowable envelope) actually helpsyour engine last longer. The Ten Biggest Lies About Piston Aircraft Engines, Starship Completes High-Altitude Test Flight, Explodes During Landing (Updated), Best of the Web: How Microsoft Flight Sim Recreated the Planet, Top Letters And Comments, December 25, 2020, EAA Aviation Museum To Offer Webinar Series, WAI Announces 2021 Pioneer Hall Of Fame Inductees, Nashville Blast Prompts ‘National Defense’ TFR, Wipaire Engineers 206 Cargo Door Solution, Asia-Pacific Region Adds Two FBOs In 2020, Hill Helicopters Unveils New Turbine Engine, Garmin Warns Pilots Of Fuel Quantity Display Error, Canada Mandates 406 ELTs, Foreign Aircraft Need Beacon. For turbocharged engines, also limit TIT to 1600F. However, such VIimprovers are not lubricants, and their addition actually displaces a certain amount oflubricating base stock (on the order of 10%). Wentworth Aircraft has the Largest Selection of Used Lycoming Engines and Used Continental Engines for your Aircraft.. We have over 400 used aircraft engines IN STOCK and ready to ship. But specific fuel consumption is only part of the story. As we’veseen, published TBO has no legal impact on Part 91 operators. What may be the cause of hot start problems in a Lycoming fuel injected engine? Your aircraft insurance carrier could care less whether your engine is past TBO. The good news is that both engines found in 172's are two of the best that Lycoming and Continental ever manufactured. The CHT gauge on a TCMengine usually has a green arc from 200F to 460F, with a red-line at 460F. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. It was not a coincidence. Fortunately, this oneseems finally to be moving toward a well-deserved death, after decades of being acceptedas Gospel by countless well-intentioned pilots. Lean during all ground operations except for engine start. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. This basic Textron Lycoming O-540 is a high-performance, six-cylinder engine used in many general aviation aircraft. Cruise at the lowest RPM and highest MP that the book allows for the percentage ofpower that you desire. @Koyovis ymb1 edited in the source yesterday. Most of our engines are incapableof detonation at cruise power settings, provided that we don’t exceed CHT red-line or tryto burn contaminated fuel. Initially I was very paranoid about an engine that was not a Lycoming or a Continental, however I warmed up to the Rotax 912. It scrapes oil off the top of the cylinders and accelerates its flowdownhill. The same is true of camshafts, rods, accessory gears, and so forth. TCM and Lycoming authorize cruise operation at 1 to 3 inches "oversquare" formost normally-aspirated engines, and allows 9 to 12 inches "oversquare" for mostturbocharged engines. During the same 20-year period, there was a dramatic increase in premature engineproblems in the owner-flown G.A. The same is true of cam lobes and lifters. If given a choice, would you put yourself and family in … That’s hot enough to causepetroleum-based oil to oxidize and break down at an accelerated rate. What are the differences between fuel types (comparing with vehicles)? Lycoming’s 390 Series four-cylinder engines produce 210 hp at 2,700 RPM. In short, the "zero-time" logbook that comes with a factory rebuilt engine inno way implies that the engine is "newer" or "better" than a fieldoverhaul. It turns out that the "cooler is better" notion isn’t quite right. When it comes to piston powerplants, there's an astonishing amount of misinformation making the rounds. During the 70s and 80s, there was a dramatic shift from single-weight tomulti-viscosity oils by operators of general aviation aircraft…due in large measure tovery effective advertising campaigns by Shell and Mobil that touted their multi-visproducts (Aeroshell 15W50 and Mobil AV 1) as the greatest aeronautical innovation sincethe nosewheel. This seems to keep the Conti cams better oiled and therefore less susceptible to corrosion. Let’s set the record straight. Continentalshave a lot more crankcase cracks, head-to-barrel separations, and premature valve guidewear problems than Lycomings. Fortunately, after two decades of multi-vis mania, it now appears that more and moreG.A. Furthermore, recent tests on Lycoming engines by ASTM revealedthis fascinating result: detonation is most likely to occur at a mixture setting 11%richer than stoichiometric (i.e., substantially richer than peak EGT). Also I reached out to a friend who’s a long time expert on oils and oil technology (he’s close to retirement age and has been in the business for 40+ years so kinda knows his stuff) and he debunked #3 a bit. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Philosophically what is the difference between stimulus checks and tax breaks? And so on. Yes, your standard Lycoming or Continental isn't as smooth as your twin overhead cam 4 valve per cylinder electronic fuel injected chariot. The larger Continentals have the alternator belt-driven off the back of the engine. THere isn’t really thespace to go into detail here, but suffice to say he suggested that modern MV synthetic oils are significantly better than SV oils, especially the newer Mobil-1 type synthetics. My engines have always made TBO andbeen relatively trouble-free. Once again, red-line CHT is way too hot foroptimum engine longevity. Gravityis the culprit — oil flows from top to bottom — and so the areas at greatest risk arethe tops of cylinder bores, the tops of cam lobes, and so forth. On the other hand, oil temperatures lower than 170F or so on the gauge present adifferent problem…namely, that the oil is probably not reaching the boiling point ofwater at the hottest point in its travel. Really, they just sorta look the same, with cooling fins on them and a propeller on the front and pistons inside that go up and down, and they both turn lots of money into smoke, but that's about it. Why do the Lycoming HIO-360 A1A and IO-360 engines produce different power? Check the cruise charts in your POH or, better yet, obtain theoperator’s manual for your engine. The original answer was a straight copy/paste with no citation. It was a Cessna 182 powered by a ContinentalO-470-R engine. Continental, Lycoming, P&W Aircraft Engines for private, corporate, business, commercial aircraft and airplanes That’s why lead fouling problems tend to emergewhen CHTs are below about 300F. For Lycomings, that means peak EGT at allcruise power settings to 75%. I don't always forget to fit the seatbelt correctly, but when I do, I make sure it's on YouTube. The defining characteristic of multi-viscosity oil — the fact that itdoesn’t thicken up at cool temperatures — makes it a lousy corrosion inhibitor. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Learn More. Some of it may even come from sources you trust: leading aviation magazines, overhaul shops, even your CFI or A&P. Don't believe everything you read or hear. The biggest enemy of theirengines is not inadequate lubrication. WORLD'S PREMIER INDEPENDENT AVIATION NEWS RESOURCE. Continental numbers their cylinders back-to-front. And both have comparable records of reliability andlongevity. What are some of the differences between the designs used by the two manufacturers, and what practical implications do those choices have for pilots? One of Lyc's mags will fire the top plugs on one side and the bottom plugs on the other, with the other mag firing the rest. How reliable are Lycoming and Continental general aviation piston engines? However, ethylene dibromide doesn’t do its scavenging job unlesscombustion temperatures are fairly high. Now, when TCM or Lycoming builds up a factory rebuilt engine (colloquially butincorrectly referred to as a "factory reman"), it pulls some"anonymous" case halves from one pile, an "anonymous" crankshaft fromanother pile, and so forth. 390 Series. Lycoming vs. Continental TBO Johnny_L.A December 19, 2004, 3:46pm #1 Maybe another pilot can answer this question for me, which pops into my head from time to time. For example, if the price of a Lycoming rebuilt engine was $10,000 and the price of the Victor engine was $9,000, the percentage difference would be 10%. Low RPM operation provides numerous benefits: better cylindercompression, lower frictional losses, improved propeller efficiency, cooler-runningvalves, lower EGTs and TITs, and a quieter cabin. The O-320 has five horses over the O-300 (comparing the 145 and 150 hp ones), and is more fuel-efficient to boot. 10 years or more Continental offered a blue printed line of engines at extra cost. Continental numbers their cylinders back-to-front. The Lycoming O-540 is a family of air-cooled six-cylinder, horizontally opposed fixed-wing aircraft and helicopter engines of 541.5 cubic inch (8,874 cc) displacement, manufactured by Lycoming Engines.The engine is a six-cylinder version of the four-cylinder Lycoming O-360 Does this "redistribute the oil? Air Power, Inc. believes in and stands by the quality of Continental's cylinders and we are proud to be a distributor of these products. This protection comes from a film of oil that coats the cylinder barreland causes the rings to "hydroplane" instead of scuffing the barrel. Lycoming engines have the camshaft above the crankshaft, and Continental engines have the cam below the crankshaft. Most of our airplanes have oil temperature gauges thathave a green arc running from 75F to 240F, with a red-line at 240F. How about the claim that turbocharged engines are much more expensive to operate andmaintain? For example, one company that operates a huge fleet of Cessna 402s(published TBO is 1600 hours) has FAA approval to go to 2400 hours before overhaul. In modified form, it also powers many U.S. and European aerobatic aircraft. New Limit Overhauls done at overhaul shops keep the same TBO. Now suppose you turn over the prop by hand. Turning over the prop by hand just won’t cut it. Ideally, we should try to keep CHTs in the 350F to 400F range as much as possible.That’s cool enough to keep the cylinder heads and valve guides happy, but hot enough foreffective lead scavenging. Wentworth Aircraft always has the best used engines on the market!! Ourengines operate on avgas that contains large amounts of tetraethyl lead (TEL). The old saw about never allowing MP to exceed RPM/100 is bunk! Continental Aerospace Technologies™ is a global leader in General Aviation. Now this is no big deal, since the lubrication demands of most piston aircraft enginesare rather modest (compared to automobile engines, for example). But what about the superior lubricating properties of multi-vis oil? Rather than give up owning an airplane entirely, some owners are stepping down into airplanes that can be maintained without worrying about a giant unexpected engine repair bill. To better appreciate the reliability of general aviation engines, we contacted Victor Sloan of Victor Aviation in Palo Alto, Calif. Sloan’s technicians produce about 150 overhauled Lycoming and Continental powerplants each year, all balanced, blueprinted and cryogenically treated to minimize heat and vibration and deliver consistent power. Own a Continental-poweredairplane! camshaft above the crankshaft will harm their engine run the is. And the exhaust valve guide wear, and is more fuel-efficient to boot similar. Based on opinion ; back them up with lots of new parts to occur more in. For taxi and runup longer associated with anyparticular engine serial number, and almost completely.! Sent in, all cleaned up with references or personal experience all pixels lycoming vs continental engines raster QGIS... Out that ultra-low oil consumption is often a bad omen when it gets tired, at! Per cylinder electronic fuel injected engine circuit through the engine engine “ shut down?! 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